Friday, July 13, 2012

A Way To Kill Bots In High-Sec?

I am usually content to just report on botting tears, not cause them, but I came across this interesting exchange on one of the botting forums last night...

Mining botter:  "Set my retriver up in .8 high sec and was ganked by a player since 2004 'ArmyOfMe' as he was in a Loki, and pod killed me as well. how the hell did this happen? doesn't he get his ship blown up?"

Bot developer:  "It goes without saying that nobody uses a Loki for suicide ganking... It's probably the fault of your drones. The ganker used a newbie ship to shoot your drones and they shot back therefore flagging you as a PVP target. Concord killed his newbie ship and then he came back in a Loki and killed your retriever for free. However I don't think he gets pod-kill rights as well so maybe it's something else, like a war declaration on your corp..."

So I have a couple of questions.  Would this actually work?  Could I use an in-corp alt to shoot a bot's combat drones to cause them to attack me?  And when that happens, is the bot criminally flagged to my entire corp for 15 minutes?  I know that the OCR mining bots have some safeguards built in to keep a bot from retrieving ore from a flipped can, but baiting drones seems like a winning strategy to me.  I know that attacking a drone in high-sec will draw a response from CONCORD and I am assuming will incur a security status hit, which makes it a bit inferior to just can flipping.  So if I take from a yellow wreck could I get the drone to attack me?

Okay, so that is more than a couple of questions.  But I'm really curious as to whether this is a valid tactic to use against botters.  Could those of you who might have a bit of experience help out a curious carebear?

20 comments:

  1. I can't answer this question, but can add another: can you remote repair a belt rat? (I guess you see the point)

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    1. I can answer you that one. No you can't.
      Supporting rats is a criminal act than concord will respond to (AFAIK). Thats why spidertank can get you in real trouble if you hit the wrong target with your repper ;-)

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  2. Not too smart of mister Dean 'I admit I am botting' Omaristos to name his ganker: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13819402

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    1. Ah, well done! You reading this, Sreegs?

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  3. For sure you can't get the aggression to corp by committing crime with you alt who's then attacked by drones. You gotta do it your self : Jump in noobie ship -> attack bot drones -> get shot back by drones -> die from CONCORD -> dock -> jump in your Loki -> kill the bot as he should have an aggression to you - All of what i said i not viable since who knows when, CCP changed the drone mechanics and they don't shoot back if you attack them. Drones just die and wait for CONCORD to arrive. I think it was an obvious Wardec cause you have no right to shoot capsule without CONCORD interference and the fact he was in a Loki - therefor not a Gank...

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    1. It MUST have been from a war dec. If you were to use a noobie ship as described, it would be concorded, yes. ALSO, EVERY other ship that you undock in for the fifteen minutes would be concorded as well due to the global criminal countdown. I know a few players that forgot about their gcc timer and undocked in a ship that they subsequently lost to concord.

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  4. Your bots will shoot back if improperly set but a pod kill isn't possible without a war dec or the Loki using an exploit to avoid Concord which is one possibility. This is why botters stay in NPC corps.

    What used to cause bots to attack was targeting them and using a scanning module or flipping a can. The bots were fixed by CCP to prevent that form of griefing long ago. To this day though you will see pilots pull drones in the moment a can flipper enters a belt.

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  5. "It's probably the fault of your drones. The ganker used a newbie ship to shoot your drones and they shot back therefore flagging you as a PVP target. Concord killed his newbie ship and then he came back in a Loki and killed your retriever for free."

    That is not possible. If you shoot a neutral in high-sec, you get a GCC (Global Criminal Cooldown), which is what makes Concord come and gank you. The last person to shoot you is obviously Concord, therefore setting your GCC @ 15mins the moment you die. This makes it impossible for you to get an agression cooldown from the target LONGER than the GCC (you can get equal duration if lucky). If you go dock and come undock while still having GCC, Concord will make a short work of your ship. So it is impossible to do this.

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    1. thank you. god. it only took 4 comments.

      thing is though, my question would be: if the drones attack the n00b ship and the carebear gives aggro - doesn't that translate to a flag for the n00b ship's player corp too?

      now THAT'S a good question. perhaps the loki pilot was in the same corp as the GCC wingman?

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    2. nevermind. did some asking and it's only jetcan flipping/stealing that'll get you corp wide aggro.

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    3. If you get podded while under GCC, you lose the GCC. So he could possibly get aggro with the noob ship, lose his pod to an alt, and then undock with the Loki and kill the barge. Does not explain how he podded the miner.

      I do not know if the above is considered an exploit.

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    4. that's VERY interesting. i'm almost sure that'll be considered an exploit.

      i'll stick with my ganker alts who're looking at a lifetime of -10 sec status in the near future...i'll try avoiding pod kills though. why rush it?

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  6. Obvious wardec is obvious since the man got the pod.

    Shooting at drones no longer gets aggro. And usually (usually) when it was used to get you aggro, concord would be the last thing to actually kill you. So concord's timer would be a whole 15 minutes after the last time they shot at you and your aggro vs the miner would have ended before you managed to undock without a gcc.

    There are a few...sneaky ways to get aggro, but they are really exploits and I'm kind of shy about the ban hammer to be chatting about them.

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    1. And I don't want to do anything to get the ban hammer either.

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  7. *shrug* all you need is two or three accounts and you can gank suspected ice macrobotters (quite lucrative actually) using tech1 fitted catalysts. Just needs some fancy footwork once you start approaching -10 in a 0.7 system.

    I plan on testing that to the full...if goons could do it for burn jita i should be able to do it as well. amirite?

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  8. What about theft? Can you steal from the botter (like looting a rat kill,) get flagged criminal, have his drones attack you because he has kill rights, and then shoot back without the GCC being tripped?

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    1. ahhh...pretty sure drones won't engage upon theft. see above for an earlier comment on that specific tactic.

      oh, if you'd already killed his ship once before and he's got kill rights on you, then i'm sure if he set his drones to attack you manually...

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  9. well, for everyone talking about him suiciding in a ship and then coming back in a Loki, besides not being possible since he has 15 mins GCC, you would see the loss mail since the KM goes to the last person who has the most damage besides Concord and there is no loss mails!

    But, the answer is very easy to obtain. Check The Codex alliance war history(hint: new feature) and you will see it was at war with Omniscient Order corporation from 15 Jun to 7 July!

    The botter is so dumb that he even complains about dying to a war target!!

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    1. that's so bizarre. brazen even...although just a few days ago was that story about CCP bumping that live streaming botter.

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  10. Here is something interesting. The botter appears to have left his corp the day after he lost his ship. Coincidence?

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