tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post4415528973409480024..comments2023-10-25T07:19:08.019-05:00Comments on The Nosy Gamer: CSM X Election: Angrod Losshelin And BottingNoizyGamerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17315716516032999133noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-49183452389501405762014-12-10T19:10:13.182-06:002014-12-10T19:10:13.182-06:00I actually believe that the best solution is for C...I actually believe that the best solution is for CCP to develop & provide in-game macro & botting tools for everyone, and redesign certain game mechanics accordingly, so that using third-party and out-of-game macro & botting tools have no advantage over the in-game versions.<br /><br />Auto-pilot is a simple example. It already exists in the game, but because it drops you short of the next gate, it isn't as good as a macro. If it worked as well as a macro - ie. warp to zero - then no one would bother using an outside macro. (Side note: keeping the current AP system to allow gate conflicts due to pure player stupidity is nothing more than bad game design)<br /><br />Flying a ship through multiple gates, flying a group of ships, doing repetitive tasks such as mining, updating market orders - all of these things fall within categories which can, and should be, done by in-game bots. The overall game design just needs to be updated to take these bots into account. Making it possible for everyone to bot ensures that the playing field remains level.<br /><br />Banning is a much less effective approach - and ultimately costs more to CCP, since they need to keep staff onboard to investigate and enforce infractions.Larry Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-49685852359224222032014-12-10T14:07:12.971-06:002014-12-10T14:07:12.971-06:00This isn't what he did. He is still actively ...This isn't what he did. He is still actively botting in other games and challenged a gave developer to catch him. That is an indication that he has a mentality that I don't want to see on the CSM.<br /><br /><br />One of the things that recent CSMs have done is get CCP to have more confidence in them. Angrod actively demonstrates that he does not care about any agreements he makes with game companies in connection with playing their games. Why should CCP have any confidence he will obey the CSM NDA? At the very least, I would expect Team Security not to share as much information as they have with CSM 9.NoizyGamerhttp://nosygamer.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-37826158924303236232014-12-10T12:42:18.529-06:002014-12-10T12:42:18.529-06:00I have never botted in any game; the most I did wa...I have never botted in any game; the most I did was dual-box two accounts on two machines without input forwarding, typically on games with recruit-a-friend deals. I would hate if this mob mentality went so far as to hurt dual boxers<br /><br /><br />I just don't see how what they did in another game should disqualify them.<br /><br /><br />Earlier this year, KS funded Camelot Unchained (from DAOC Marc Jacobs ) had a lot of videos on their BSC days (Bat S*** Crazy) and there was one of the security developers talking about how he used to bot (wrote them himself IIRC) 4+ machines in EVE. (I am old and old school enough to draw a big moral distinction from botting-for-programming-curiosity versus just botting-for-in-game-advantage) And so that they were working hard to make CU bot resistant. So I would hope and expect that CCP has employees working on more than bans but on hardening the software and that the majority of them have botted in the past.Sally Bowlsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-27152786028767254922014-12-10T11:13:15.546-06:002014-12-10T11:13:15.546-06:00For the example shown, there are 7 miners. I can s...For the example shown, there are 7 miners. I can slightly offset 7 full eve windows on a single monitor, enable my mouse ease of access in the windows control panel (hovering the mouse for .15 seconds over a window activates it) and accomplish the exact same thing in ~30 seconds of additional input. In the time scale that mining a roid happens, an additional 30 seconds makes no impact on in game efficiency and the use can be argued as an ease of life for a miner as opposed to a boost in game performance.<br /><br /><br /><br />How does a setup like that impact someone doing a gate camp or a bombing run? I think that those are the arguments needed to support removing these programs. I don't believe it has a large enough impact on mining to actually impact in game performance while it will have a substantial impact on someone doing a gate camp. Bombing runs or non-static activities I'm not sure of. Do you know of anyone that uses round-robin or VideoFX for bombing runs without the input broadcasting?Cypher Reesenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-4882014939577119832014-12-10T10:42:09.220-06:002014-12-10T10:42:09.220-06:00Just remember, I'm basing my do not vote recom...Just remember, I'm basing my do not vote recommendation on the fact that Angrod is a proud botter, not that he defends input broadcasting/multiplexing.NoizyGamerhttp://nosygamer.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-71136535210185218902014-12-10T10:11:11.781-06:002014-12-10T10:11:11.781-06:00Sorry for chainposting but forgot to credit the im...Sorry for chainposting but forgot to credit the image source: Lucas Kell (http://indecisivenoob.blogspot.nl/)Raziel Walkerhttp://razielwalker.blogspot.nlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-25570240037514302482014-12-10T10:09:07.277-06:002014-12-10T10:09:07.277-06:00Just compare http://img.techpowerup.org/140409/Min...Just compare http://img.techpowerup.org/140409/Miningdoneright.jpg with having to move your mouse cursor all the way across multiple screens and having to look at each screen to see the information you want.Raziel Walkerhttp://razielwalker.blogspot.nlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-14629766716219760322014-12-10T09:19:42.722-06:002014-12-10T09:19:42.722-06:00I've never used ISboxer or VideoFX, but what I...I've never used ISboxer or VideoFX, but what I have seen from the videos using these features without the input broadcasting is very similar to simply having multiple monitors each with their own instance of eve. Granted you can run a lot more clients much easier than you could having a dedicated monitor for each client, but wouldn't you need to ban the use of multiple monitors if you advocate the banning of these features as well?Cypher Reesenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-37168903950920650012014-12-10T06:34:39.321-06:002014-12-10T06:34:39.321-06:00The only valid concern I heard against the ban on ...The only valid concern I heard against the ban on input replication is that it won't really solve anything because VideoFX (and round robin) will still allow for very efficient multiboxing.<br />I still applaud the ban on input replication as a good first step, but depending on the results harsher measures might be needed.<br />Should this videoFX thing and other software that improves your ability to multibox be banned as well, but where do we draw the line then? Ban all client modifications?Raziel Walkerhttp://razielwalker.blogspot.nlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-65873303023094473202014-12-10T06:15:19.494-06:002014-12-10T06:15:19.494-06:00Good report and analysis, Noizy. This guy has zero...Good report and analysis, Noizy. This guy has zero chance of being elected to CSMX. More likely, he's now on CCP Games' watch list. He'd better keep his nose clean, or the anti-botting cops are going to bust him, hard. Meanwhile, I have a hard time seeing how he could muster enough broad support to earn a slot on the CSM. <br /><br />Keep up the good work, Noizy - your reporting on the background and points of view of CSM candidates is very helpful.Neville Smitnoreply@blogger.com