tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post8040102582789299626..comments2023-10-25T07:19:08.019-05:00Comments on The Nosy Gamer: Raffles And RMTNoizyGamerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17315716516032999133noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-33096950321344474742013-10-23T13:28:41.278-05:002013-10-23T13:28:41.278-05:00This ignores a few small but important points. Fir...This ignores a few small but important points. First of all the red highlighting at top is a literal red herring to the actual issue. the EULA forbids buying, selling, or auctioning the items. it does not forbid gambling. at that point the EULA stops, scrolling down to see that you cant use multiple shell transactions to buy and sell, which is the meaning of the red highlighted text has nothing to do with the fact that you are through multiple transactions betting on an item. <br /><br />The site gives you credits to use in gambling. the outcome of which isn't predetermined (unless the tinfoilers can come up with evidence of people being prevented from joining a blink so that a single person could take all the raffle tickets, and no someone buying them all right at the start doesn't count, unless code prevented others from buying them, getting there first isn't a crime/violation). It happens to be that the credits you get are turned in, at a varying rate for the actual raffle tickets. Because this is the only use for these credits they are still, when you receive them raffle tickets. <br /><br />It would be different if summer blink took the money and used in game currency to purchase plex that was then given to the character. that is RMT. Here the situation is different because first off summerblink doesn't sell GTC's. Maybe this failed to be realized, but that is actually important. They also receive no money from the players. they receive a referral bonus from people who buy GTC though a third party seller, from that seller. <br /><br />The situation with the selling of the one character through the purchase of a minimal number of GTC's where the number of tickets is pegged, not to the ingame item (GTC's as in summerblink) but to the real world dollar amount charged are two different issues. They are on the face similar, but would fall for different reasons. <br /><br />In the end since the "law" in this case is the EULA, and associated documents, is completely a CCP structure it is up to them to determine if something is a violation of the EULA or not. Armchair/desktop lawyering, of which all of this is, ends up being simple flag waving. The arbiter of the law (CCP) determines if it has been broken. that there could be similar situations where one is deemed RMT by ccp, and faces bans etc, while another with certain differences isn't is what the real world is about. I cant produce and sell hard liquor, someone who has done the proper paperwork can. <br /><br /><br />before anyone gets in on this, no i am not a blink plant, and have infact never used their service. Being an engineer makes me inherently wary of gambling. it also lets me look at situations objectively. <br /><br /><br />Tego <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-74513914512343101702013-10-23T01:41:08.756-05:002013-10-23T01:41:08.756-05:00@NoizyGamer: I am not a lawyer, but I used literal...@NoizyGamer: I am not a lawyer, but I used literal interpretation:<br />"The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA."<br /><br />Buying selling and auctioning [...] through any means is prohibited. that's how I uderstand it.<br /><br />@Druur agreed, raffle still requires a transfer. It seems I was wrong in the end.Lukas Roxhttp://pozniak.pl/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-24127004443287194862013-10-22T18:59:46.164-05:002013-10-22T18:59:46.164-05:00Noted, corrected, and may I say this is the best c...Noted, corrected, and may I say this is the best comment yet.NoizyGamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17315716516032999133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-28655757273435599432013-10-22T18:57:38.249-05:002013-10-22T18:57:38.249-05:00@Lukas - I addressed this in the post. If you tak...@Lukas - I addressed this in the post. If you take the entire paragraph, you will see that the phase "any other means". That is the legalese put in to cover things like this. Also, even if you are correct about the EULA, the ToS covers the transfer of goods also.NoizyGamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17315716516032999133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-13897259294337907702013-10-22T18:54:44.759-05:002013-10-22T18:54:44.759-05:00@ Anonymous right above. - The reason that people ...@ Anonymous right above. - The reason that people are freaking out is that this is clearly a real money transaction. It is not the promotional credits that are given out, because those are okay. If SOMER wanted to give out extra ISK for someone depositing a large sum of ISK into an account, that would be within the EULA and ToS also. It is when SOMER gives the ISK in exchange for purchasing out-of-game merchandise that is the problem and what makes this illicit RMT.NoizyGamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17315716516032999133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-76874525675065265952013-10-22T18:49:41.507-05:002013-10-22T18:49:41.507-05:00@Dersen - If TMC takes the ad revenue and then pur...@Dersen - If TMC takes the ad revenue and then purchases PLEX directly from CCP, or purchases GTCs and converts them to PLEX through CCP, then it is okay. But if TMC took the ad money and then did a conversion without the involvement of CCP, that violates the EULA & ToS.NoizyGamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17315716516032999133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-55577431482445316542013-10-22T16:02:56.006-05:002013-10-22T16:02:56.006-05:00I still don't get what the fuss is about. What...I still don't get what the fuss is about. What they are actually selling is a service, no-ones making people buy game codes through that link, if people do they are getting extra 'credits' to use that service and the service provider is getting a kick back on that. This is how life works, its not RMT in my eyes. Its not Somer selling isk its Somer selling its service.... <br /><br />But I can understand how the tinfoil hatters are freaking out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-83279510445032186162013-10-22T11:12:08.954-05:002013-10-22T11:12:08.954-05:00I don't think it's hidden - affiliate prog...I don't think it's hidden - affiliate programs with GTC sellers are an old hat.Druur Monakhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07299435488090977357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-85903074541753555242013-10-22T11:10:10.910-05:002013-10-22T11:10:10.910-05:00I think this is an important point: the players do...I think this is an important point: the players don't get ISK directly, only an increased chance to win ISK - and I'd really like to see how this balances out in the big picture. For everybody making big wins there must be somebody who doesn't win anything, 200M credit or not, otherwise SOMER would be broke.<br /><br />Another point is that SOMER gets the the commission fee regardless whether they hand out a credit or not. And unlike the DNSBlack raffle, players get actual items commensurate in value with the amount of money they spend: ie. somebody spending $2500 would receive 70 GTC, and not just one.<br /><br />I am not making the call whether or not SOMER is RMTing or not (and if they're RMTing, whether it was intentional), only saying that there are differences between these two cases.Druur Monakhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07299435488090977357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-32869001821573346182013-10-22T10:57:28.921-05:002013-10-22T10:57:28.921-05:00But doesn't a raffle still require a transfer,...But doesn't a raffle still require a transfer, with the raffle just deciding who the recipient is going to be?Druur Monakhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07299435488090977357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-81764118660734911552013-10-22T10:16:01.215-05:002013-10-22T10:16:01.215-05:00Hmm, This http://youtu.be/ren--78GoG4 is a *gambol...Hmm, This http://youtu.be/ren--78GoG4 is a *gamboling* site... and Somerblink is a gambling site.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-56629238697566813382013-10-22T08:19:46.877-05:002013-10-22T08:19:46.877-05:00According to EULA:
You may not transfer, sell or ...According to EULA:<br /><br />You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment.<br /><br />Raffle is not listed in the EULA, that's why neither DNSBlack nor SOMER Blink is breaching the EULA. Yes, technically they're doing RMT, but according to rules quoted above, they don't. My point of view is the point of the EULA.Lukas Roxhttp://pozniak.pl/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-80550207174704563012013-10-22T07:12:52.313-05:002013-10-22T07:12:52.313-05:00Only Dinsdale Pirannha could take the actual issue...Only Dinsdale Pirannha could take the actual issue of Somer and CCP malfeasance and try to make it about :tinfoil: nullsec, the big bad in his personal conspiracy theory.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-27882334616335918442013-10-22T05:44:36.364-05:002013-10-22T05:44:36.364-05:00Well, today I bought 14 GTCs by banner on SOMER we...Well, today I bought 14 GTCs by banner on SOMER website, I got 3.4bil credits as reward. I played a few bigger blinks, lost some, won some, at the end I had 1.5mil in credits and moros and rorqual in winnings plus some small ships. I checked caps prices on market in-game, decided to get ISK instead of ships, left with 6bil in wallet. And I still have my 28 PLEXes which makes it like 23bil or sth like that. <br /><br />Meh, I don't see what that all fuzz is about :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-74390963561850442242013-10-22T05:19:41.943-05:002013-10-22T05:19:41.943-05:00@ Yes I am and no, not as far as I know.
On the o...@ Yes I am and no, not as far as I know.<br /><br />On the other hand (and this isn't in relation to DNSBlack who i think should be forgiven regardless) a game company is not a legal system. If a players says "I cheated" I think a game company is entitled to ban them and that "lol was just trolling" isn't much of a defence after someone gets banned.Stabshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08716211705647213383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-29099692566736643292013-10-21T22:06:17.339-05:002013-10-21T22:06:17.339-05:00You're right. I just listened to the YouTube v...You're right. I just listened to the YouTube video again. That means he's probably paid out almost $2 million to his affiliates.NoizyGamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17315716516032999133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-37935050940247007662013-10-21T21:05:02.011-05:002013-10-21T21:05:02.011-05:00Sorry, Noizy. From the spotlight "Having sold...Sorry, Noizy. From the spotlight "Having sold over 1 million EVE Time codes..."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-68616887018310700212013-10-21T19:52:36.909-05:002013-10-21T19:52:36.909-05:00The winnings advertised is Turnover, not actual pr...The winnings advertised is Turnover, not actual prizes - it is misleadingAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09310344062417683482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-61221125981126299802013-10-21T19:43:58.875-05:002013-10-21T19:43:58.875-05:00@Stabs - You're assuming that DNSBlack actuall...@Stabs - You're assuming that DNSBlack actually sold his character and assets. Has anyone actually confirmed that?NoizyGamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17315716516032999133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-1414987454280589872013-10-21T19:37:57.894-05:002013-10-21T19:37:57.894-05:00@DSJ - One slight correction. That's over $1 ...@DSJ - One slight correction. That's over $1 million in sales, not 1 million GTC. But over 28,000 GTC is still a lot of game time.NoizyGamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17315716516032999133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-72850078823714080482013-10-21T19:10:32.192-05:002013-10-21T19:10:32.192-05:00Well, maybe you're right, but I wanted to spel...Well, maybe you're right, but I wanted to spell it out in the simplest terms possible to make sure I didn't miss anything.NoizyGamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17315716516032999133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-1116881972912840772013-10-21T19:08:18.455-05:002013-10-21T19:08:18.455-05:00Actually, I am opposed to getting rid of GTC selle...Actually, I am opposed to getting rid of GTC sellers as they actually help make PLEX an effective counter to the ISK selling sites like IGE, who recently left the ISK market.NoizyGamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17315716516032999133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-25680521479678248272013-10-21T18:54:35.696-05:002013-10-21T18:54:35.696-05:00If CCP had any self respect, they'd be doing w...If CCP had any self respect, they'd be doing what it takes to sell the GTCs direct and stop letting 10 million dollars go out the door while they're making less than 5million per year profit (you can view their financials). Srsly. If you were running a business and making 5 mill a year on 100mill in expenses and the guy selling "tickets" to your content was making 10mill, would you start firing people? There's just no other way to say this: CCP's management have no clue what they're doing. None.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-26714725480173800532013-10-21T18:50:27.312-05:002013-10-21T18:50:27.312-05:00I think, when everything is stripped away, it will...I think, when everything is stripped away, it will come down to this: CCP doesn't make much money and it doesn't look like they ever will unless Valkyrie gets developed before they run out of funding (either you or one of the other bloggers broke out their financials recently). Selling GTCs is an important component of their revenue stream, so they have a vested interest in anything that increases sales. Here's where I put on my tinfoil hat and you roll your eyes. They need funding. Markee wants to make more money. They now BOTH have a vested interest in the success of EVE. So what happens when Markee's representative comes to the table with liquid capital and a proposition? At the end of the day, should we care? Without the funding, CCP is on very shaky financial ground. Are we making a deal with the Devil or reaping the beneficence of an Angel? Hard to say. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-942059813481083566.post-23921705444940671612013-10-21T18:10:03.436-05:002013-10-21T18:10:03.436-05:00I dont think any of the dev's looking into som...I dont think any of the dev's looking into somer cared about its RMT<br /><br />https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3755340#post3755340<br /><br />"Offering a (small) ISK bonus for doing community work in a provable way is from my personal perspective fine. Please note that this is my personal opinion and not official ruling."<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com