Do you believe that SOMERblink is engaged in RMT? If so, what should CCP do?
I've also embedded the question in this post for those who are using some sort of feed reader. I don't know if it will actually work, though.
As always with internet polls of this nature, the results are completely unscientific. I don't want people to think the all internet polls are bad, because they can be good if standards and best practices (and honest sample selection) are followed. But this one is just to see what people who visit the blog think.
Also, apologies if this post loads a bit slow.
I voted yes but Somer should stay in business if they follow the rules ... at this point it is abundantly clear that CCP themselves have allowed a set of practices that in effect are allowing RMT as long as it is through the the GTC programs. Under those circumstances you can't simply ban the group that is most successful at using the rules CCP has allowed.
ReplyDeleteYou posted the Darius update --- ""So as you can see, CCP has set precedents over the past year allowing players to break the EULA as long as they don't do "bad things"." - Correction... VERY junior members of CCP have gone on record in the past year and prior to that regarding EULA violations. In most cases VERY junior members of a company don't get to decide which portions of their legal contracts a company is going to honor."
The problem with this statement is that CCP has featured both Somerblink and Marquee Dragon specifically in their community spotlights:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-markee-dragon/
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-somer-blink/
This paints a pretty bad picture about CCP management practices with regards to EULA / security / PR issues. Read through that Community Spotlight for Marquee Dragon and you will find that the entire process of RMT is formally acknowledged and sanctioned by CCP. They are entirely on board with the RMT process at this point so long as it is through GTC re-sellers. This policy IS NOT "VERY junior members" --- this is big money. As pointed out the Marquee Dragon profit on 1,000,000 GTC re-sells is huge, as is the $1 per GTC figure for affiliates. Somerblink is not just covering the cost of a web site and bandwidth costs --- this is in fact a business with substantial profits.
If CCP maintains this legal RMT we are looking at every player in the game being able to cash out ISK, items, and characters --- so long as it's within the GTC re-seller process --- How long before that becomes what the game is all about? Now that it is out in the open how long before the deluge rushes through the flood gates?
Voted, Yes so What, probably because I do not play EvE anymore.
ReplyDeleteIt is what it is, they are just a product of EvE gaming culture and CCP unprofessional business practices. RMP is thriving here and CCP is part of it. They can not stop it so they are joining it. And talking about it is not going make it go away. The biggest alliances are part of it too. So everybody is happy. This is why i do not play it anymore as well.
I voted no due to my responses in your previous post, otherwise I might have gone for answer 4 since that mirrors my stance a bit closer.
ReplyDeleteI don't consider it RMT because of the implicit CCP approval. (Given on a case by case basis?)
Modified stolen Trebor Quote (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3747844#post3747844)
CCP is the King. The King gets to set the rules, and if the King decides to change the rules, he does so by divine right.
I have said it before, I will say it again. If CCP has approved this version of RMT, how many other entities have they approved RMT for, or look the other way?
ReplyDeletegoons and their renters now control over half of the entire null sec income base (NPC space and the half of sov 0.0 space left is not as lucrative as what the goons control). We are talking trillions of ISK every month flowing through the hands of a select few. If CCP looks the other way when it comes to Somerset's RMT, because they deem his business "good for the game", how do we not know that CCP ignores goon RMT operations because they deem goons "good for the game"?
No, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes.
ReplyDeleteAs you stated: That's a bad poll and you won't get "results".
My answer would be neither "yes" nor "no".
Unfortunately, there is no: "I only heard rumors but do not KNOW the details, therefore can't / won't judge them."
Even an "I don't care as I don't use SOMER blink and don't buy GTC @ MarqueeDragon" option would be nice.
RMT is always done by a seller and a customer. Without customers there is no RMT.
Now there are pilots flying ships they have won at SOMER blink by using the credits they got for buying a GTC at MarqueeDragon shooting the monument and shouting: "We made SOMER blink a story of success, we pay MarqueeDragons bills, but they are bad because now we are jealous!"
If players stop using SOMER & MD -> problem solved.
But why change your own habits if you can blame others to be responsible for the problems you created?
I voted, Yes, but since CCP tacitly approved, SOMER should be allowed to stay in business if he follows the rules in the future.
ReplyDeleteBut since it is through the GTC program I'm not sure if it is real RMT? It's getting more than a little muddled in my mind. I'm not sure its anymore RMT than PLEX is.
One of the biggest points DNSBlack seems to make is, is that it is possible to spend RL money to get ingame isk advatages, but that has been the case since PLEX was introduced. As long as you can't buy an ingame item that someone can't earn ingame with ingame activites I'm not sure I see this all being that big of a deal.
And I picked 4 for 2 reasons. One I don't think SOMER is trying to just make money off of EVE the same way a RMTader is. Two I think the rules in the future set by King CCP could be made more specifically open to allowing this at least wher GTC's are concerned.
IMO being able to "cash out" of Eve is fundamentally different from being able to "cash in". If you think of all the ways this could be and will be abused now that it is in the open it's not hard to imagine major game breaking activities taking place.
DeleteThis type of activity means that individuals, corps, and alliances along with outside websites have an incentive to generate large amounts of ISK, not for the in-game benefits that it brings to them in game play, but as a way of extracting $ from the game itself.
Going forward everyone with a large potential income or a high SP character has to be thinking about that "cash out" option. If its legal there is no reason not to. All the emotion of DNSBlack's stunt aside is "cashing out" good for the game?
No one looks at the PLEX market and doesn't judge it as RMT --- it clearly is. PLEX (and GTC's) are legal RMT limited by CCP in an attempt to prevent illegal RMT from destroying the game. Illegal botting, duping, cc fraud and such things follow in the wake of illegal RMT schemes and legal RMT combats that.
ReplyDeleteIt is not hypocritical to suggest however that the current debate over Somer / Marquee / CCP involves pushing legal RMT further than anyone originally thought it would go
RMT is not intrinsically bad. PLEX and GTC are both RMT with CCP as the mediator, which CCP is obviously just fine with.
ReplyDeleteThe RMT that is raising alarms is SOMER handing out credit for every GTC purchased through their site, which they get a kickback for, and which credit can be redeemed for in-game items. That's not CCP-mediated RMT (the GTC purchase). That's SOMER-mediated RMT ($1 for a long-term average of 80M ISK in in-game items).
Mabrick has pointed out that they give you the credit when you order, not when they're paid, so you get the credit even if the order falls through (although, since he renewed the order, we don't know if you can pile up credit by ordering GTCs and then blowing off the confirmation call over and over again--I imagine that both SOMER and Marquee Dragon would tire of that rather quickly).
Mostly, I'd just like to see something from CCP other than "we thought it was cool." Granted, that's been the way they've handled player enterprise just about from the get-go, but it gets dicey fast when you bring real money into it, even if SOMER's intentions are completely pure.
As I said in the comments of the last post, SOMER isn't the problem. The problem lies in selling GTCs and earning money by it that won't go to CCP. There is too much profit in this Vendor society that the productive game developer gets his profit cut down by cadgers, reselling his idea.
ReplyDeleteSOMER is just the tip of this ice berg, the real problem lies in the far deeper mechanic of reseller profits. You can't ban SOMER for using that long established system of resellers, but we can work on changing the system. Well OK changing that system is CCPs call, we only can take the slightly more expensive step and by PLEX direct from CCP.
SOMER is RMT and I found proof too. Don't miss the Monday post!
ReplyDeleteLaw enforcement shouldn't be up to vote. It's either RMT or not. If it is, it's illegal and needs to stop. And if CCP isn't willing to stop it themselves, they can be made to stop by official authorities by reporting them for tax evasion.
ReplyDelete