"One guy listens to one podcast which isn't an active Eve 'cast and it's a review about sexism in the community? Really?"
- Arydanika, host, Voices From The Void
Back in March The Mittani was embroiled in controversy due to his drunken remarks following the Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2012. As the mainstream gaming media spun out of control getting their facts wrong, The Mittani and his supporters grew irate with Massively columnist Brendan Drain, who called The Mittani's actions "cyber-bullying". Drain and The Mittani met on Eve Radio's The Funky Bacon Show where Drain apologized and removed references to the term from his stories. Massively's Editor-In-Chief Shawn Schuester acknowledged that the use of the term violated Massively's code of conduct. Following such a firestorm I expected that any web site associated with The Mittani would take care about carelessly tarring people with inaccurate labels.
Fast forward to this Monday. Following a couple of days after Corelin began his campaign against the phrase "Rape Train" (which was picked up on Eve News 24 Monday), The Mittani DOT Com published a story titled "On EVE Podcasts: The Blatant Sexism." In the original version of the story Hoots writes about listening to an Eve podcast that used language that left the author shocked at the casual sexism so callously displayed and accepted. Here is the original ending to the article:
"Even now, I still tell this very story to my non-EVE playing friends when they prompt me about this game’s player culture, and it makes such a good story because it is believable to have come out of EVE Online. That is the tragedy for the rest of us who aren’t raving mad lunatics, and I hope we all keep that in mind the next time we deign to tolerate someone who is downright abusive and nasty."After re-reading this story a few times I don't think that Hoots is trying to blanket the entire Eve podcast community as sexist, but I honestly am not sure. The title of the article definitely gives that impression even though Hoots states in the article to having never listened to an entire podcast devoted to Eve. Eve Radio's DJ Funky Bacon had no doubts and started raising Cain about an article that tarred all Eve podcasters as sexist without getting into specifics or even naming the offending podcast. DJ Funky Bacon posted this in the comments that seemed to sum up his argument:
"I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm not saying it should happen. I'm saying that to write an article (or a blog post) on 'Eve Podcasts' after listening to a part of 1 podcast (that he switched off the moment it harmed his senses), and not even being able to cite the source is utter garbage.In response on Tuesday Hoots responded:
"Want to make a post on sexism in the eve podcasting community? Do some actual research. Show me more than 1 example... a pattern if you will. It's like saying 'This one time A pirate ransomed me and then killed me anyway, so pirates must not honor ransoms!' I just have no patience for generalization born of laziness."
"After this article was published, I went back and found the podcast in question. I have decided to name the actual podcast, as I feel the words were unacceptable and made in a public forum. Ultimately the EVE community may judge them for themselves."He went on to list Notalotofnews Newshour 103, a podcast that stopped being Eve-centric in June, as the offending podcast. I've taken the liberty of transcribing the offending segment. It runs from 20:29 to 21:30 of the podcast.
Jason: "But there is another complete leg of the game, a political leg. Didn't you always wonder if they would have some political science people being able to play Eve and try to write an essay on that?"To begin, to a new player the fact that a corporation might put up a "No Girls Allowed" sign might appear sexist. At least until one has played a few months and realize that the rule is put up for the protection of a corporation because a lot of guys just are not mature enough to interact with a real live female in an internet spaceship game. Don't believe me? For an example listen to Voices from the Void #62 and Arydanika's interview with the spy master T3mp3s7 to find out just how easy a time a female pilot has causing mischief in Eve.
FrFrmPukin: "They have. There was people trying to study the markets in the game, the economy..."
Jason: "You've heard markets all the time but I was talking about not markets as much as political science."
FrFrmPukin: "Coming through the Multiplex Gaming Network there's been plenty of guys who have gone through college and have written papers on Eve. The game play; the communities that are in there. In fact I know there's this one chick that was in our corp years ago that I swear to God it was nothing but a big social experiment for her. You know, which came to the 'no boobies' clause, 'no single boobies' clause for MPX. There are no single chicks in MPX because of her."
Jason: (chuckles)
FrFrmPukin: "Seriously."
Also, I was a bit surprised at the word that Hoots seemed to find so shocking. I figured if the word began with the letter "b" it would be a different word. And the word that began with the letter "c" would be a lot stronger than "chicks". I also expected words beginning with "s" or "w". But "boobies"? I personally wouldn't use the word but I've heard a lot worse.
Stepping out into the wider world of Eve podcasting any insinuation that the podcast community is filled with misogynistic neanderthals just doesn't ring true. Kirith Kodachi on Broadcasts from the Ninveah? Alekseyev Karrde on Declarations of War? Jade on Lost in Eve? I really have a problem thinking of someone who fits the description. Heck, one of the hosts on Fly Reckless is an ordained minister if I recall correctly.
Of course I haven't mentioned the keeper of the Eve Pod Pack and the matching Skype channel, Arydanika. She isn't really known for putting up with too much stupidity without throwing out some barbs of her own.
 |
| Dani Can Use Photoshop Too |
Street Fighter X Tekken tournament called Cross Assault. When the time came to list out the Eve community's pajamahadeen who were not afraid to duke it out with the MGM, Dani was one of the first people to come to mind.
Now I am not about to try to tell everyone that Eve Online is filled with virtuous people and that all is sweetness and light because it's not. One of the benefits in my solo low-sec play style is that I don't have to put up with all of the idiots spouting offensive stuff. But with all the examples available, why would someone try to pick on the Eve podcast community?
Uhm, what does being an 'ordained minister' have to do with being sexist or not?
ReplyDeleteI can cause mischief? So excited now! Must go tell the boys...
ReplyDeleteThe Mittani.com has an agenda against other sources of Eve news information. They griefed White Rose out of the game and have harassed Mabrick several times. Their high sec griefing group, Miniluv, very clearly includes harassing people who publish information and stories about Eve as well as the plurality of high sec pilots.
ReplyDeleteThe Mittani is an egomaniac narcissist who is offended by the idea that anyone gets attention but him.
Smearing podcasts is very much on the agenda.
Problem is that FrFrmPukin has long history of spouting sexism, misogyny and racism on that podcast. You should hear him rag on about Russians (or anybody that doesn't play EVE 'his' way and happens to not speak English).
ReplyDeleteHe also regularly makes claims about EVE game mechanics that are simply false on the podcast.
That said the fact that the man is an idiot obviously doesn't support the conclusion that all EVE podcasts even less the entire community has an issue (not saying it doesn't but this one rotten apple doesn't support that claim by itself).
Mittens IS a bully. He has been on any number of podcasts and done live interviews, and just like in Iceland, he's "slipped" a few times. He isn't role playing, that is who he is and what he likes. He likes to LARP because it gives him the opportunity to beat the shit out of nerds with his buddies with fake weapons. His words. In Eve, it's the perfect venue to cause as much grief as he can, to as many people as he can. He doesn't "play Eve", he griefs in Eve. He has said time and again that it is a stupid game, and a terrible game, and he rarely even logs in. Calling him only a cyber bully is being gracious.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to Eve, and you open the cover to the sewer, how can anyone be stunned enough to start complaining about what type of shit they want to flow out? Ifyou create an arena where almost anything goes, why is it any kind of a surprise that it collects so many players that would be banned from other games for acting the way they do in Eve? Eve players like to boast how sophisticated they are, but they aren't. They're just a bunch of Neanderthals that can mash away at a spreadsheet.
Generalizing from the individual to the community is called racism. You're expressing your racist view of EVE players. Was that your intention?
DeleteI like that TM.com is giving some time to a guy who is writing about issues of sexism in the game, I just wish they'd pick a better writer. That guy makes me cringe and I know *MY* writing hasn't exactly been inspiring lately... but damn.
ReplyDelete